A while ago I came across a website called Citizen Warrior who is a person out to educate the world about the evils of Islam. Unlike many of his (lets just make this person a man) compatriots in the war on Islam, Citizen Warrior promotes a more calm and rational hatred of Islam. That is why he started up the website http://talkaboutislamamongnonmuslims.blogspot.com/. The website has a worthy goal of “Here non-Muslims discuss the challenges of talking to our fellow non-Muslims about the unsettling nature of Islamic doctrine”. The whole content of the website (besides the articles he links back to his main site which include How to Stay Calm When Talking About Islam and When People Think You’re Nuts) is just a single blog post where people are supposed to post in the comments section about the trouble they have when talking to non-Muslims about Islam.
So lets see what advice people have to offer us:
sheepdog said…
There seems to be two basic categories of Jihad; war-like terrorism and taqiyya. Unfortunately, the terrorism is the most easily countered because people (with a brain) see it for what it is. All of the non-violent forms make it easy to deceive the slumbering, gullible public and I’m afraid there are too few of us that recognize the threat of jihad. Until the general public comes to understand that Islam is a government hiding behind a religious front that is totally incompatible with our constitutional form of government we are losing the war. Unfortunately our government controlled media, or is it media controlled government, continues to feed misinformation and politically correct crap.
Taqiyya is the practice of hiding one’s faith when under the threat of persecution, somehow that got twisted around in some peoples’ heads to mean that Muslims are going to hide their faith and infiltrate us (see Obama, Barack Hussain).
Salmon wants to let us know that you should read some books about Islam before spouting off about it. It is sad that needs to be said.
Salmon said…
First and most obvious, since Jihad has killed millions and threatens to kill us, we should take time to bone up on Islam–its history, doctrines and practices. Take the time to read some basic books. Then we will all be thoughtful strategists and not just shooting the breeze.
Our man Citizen Warrior chimes in to let people know to watch out to make sure you don’t get the same reputation as a Dutch politician who wants to ban the Qur’an, tax women wearing headscarfs, end immigration from Muslim countries and was banned from entering the UK for 9 months.
Citizen Warrior said…
Finally Figured Out Islam: The same thing is happening to Geert Wilders. It’s crazy! He only showed Muslims speaking and acting, and showed quotes from the Quran about those actions, but HE is being charged with hate speech. If we can make this point clear and make it obvious how crazy it is, it would go a long way to ending getting over this first hurdle.
Today another Muslim was arrested for something or other. I can’t be bothered to provide details or anything but it totally happened. When are people going to learn that nebulous stories like that can’t happen?
Today another Muslim, in Chicago, was arrested for trying to blow up buildings, poison the water supply or cause other havoc. I cannot understand how any Muslim sympathizer fails to connect the dots – you don’t hear of any other group doing this type of stuff all over the world – because the Muslims are the only ones whose religious and politics takes them in that direction.
You see back in the day the Pope lied to people to kill people but Imams taught people to be nice to everyone. Then some stuff happened and somehow Christianity became very nice and nothing bad ever happened because of people interpreting the bible in a way that would incite violence, hate or discrimination. At the same time every Muslim started reading the Qur’an and they all realized simultaneously it was about killing every non-Muslim ever. Therefor Christianity is better than Islam.
The rebuttal about the crusades is common. Here is how I tackle it.
The Pope told Christians that their sins would be forgiven if they fought in the crusades, but war against infidels is not commanded by Christianity, nor are one’s sins forgiven this way. Noone had bibles in those days so they couldn’t check if the Pope’s declarations were based on the original scriptures. When Martin Luther finally got hold of one of the oldest Greek manuscripts, he translated it and found that salvation was ‘free’, not earnt, paid for, or granted by popes or priests. This started the reformation.
The opposite has occurred in Islam. Like Christians before the Reformation, muslims depended on the Imam to tell them what Islam was about. Mostly the imam would teach only the nice parts, except when war broke out would he instruct the soldiers about jihad. But lately, with increased literacy and availablity of Qurans, anyone can now read it for themselves in his or her language. So, when you scrape back Christianity to its raw state, you do not get the “crusades” anywhere in it. But when you do the same with Islam ie scrape it back to its pure form, the Quran, you get this …..
Commonsense13’s tactic in talking to non-Muslims about Islam is to be completely bat shit crazy.
commonsense13 said…
This is an exchange between me and another member at another site. We “argue” all the time about Muslims and he defends their right to be protected under our Constitution without limit. On this site we are formed of military, LE, veterans and civilians who take the oath to uphold the constitution and protect the country against enemies both foreign and domestic. Part of our mission statement is to Reach, Teach and Inspire, also that under martial law we will not disarm civilians…
ME: So, let me see…we should only talk about what the Active Duty people want to talk about…would that be maybe the killing of their fellow soldiers at Ft. Hood by a Muslim and now wonder whenever they have to serve next to one where that persons allegiences really are? But ya see, they can’t say that out loud on a regular military forum can they? They could talk about it here under an assumed name and info can be shared. Or we can only talk about what is important to LE? Well that would probably be about the illegal Mexicans crossing over our southern borders by the thousands and terrorizing our cities, bringing in drugs, killing, taking resources such as health care, welfare and educational benefits that should be going to American citizens and legal immigrants.
Or should we be talking about what is important to DOJ personnel or all the new czars appointed by this administration who is jamming socialism down our throats? Will IRS agents be included in this group when they are required to garnish your wages because you didn’t buy the governmental healthcare which clearly goes against the Commerce Clause? Are we actively recruiting IRS agents? They can seize our property. Also against the Constitution.
So who decides what topics are valid for who to talk about? Are we to assume that all of these “special” members are going to blindly follow OK’s mission and go against their sworn duty just because of this membership when they do not have the facts of what is really going on at any given moment? Do they read every piece of news out there to keep up to date? Probably not. Who is to say that in something like Katrina there isn’t an area that there is a bunch of gangbangers shooting at the police and military and they are given orders to go in and disarm them…do you think that because of the OK oath they are going to say NO? If they did, what use are they? If there is a muslim training center and LE is told to go in and disarm them, are they going to say NO because no one wants to believe that there are bad muslims here and don’t want to hurt their feelings? Shouldn’t we as a group discuss what is out there, how to handle things, share info, figure out how to bring this country back as close to the Constitution and honest politics in order to support our military and LE to make their jobs easier and keep all of us safer and at the same time prepared if TSHTF? Im sure our LE and military could give us good information on what to do, what we should be doing…for a natural disaster or a political one. Those of you who don’t want to hear it or join in, just don’t…go to another thread but stop calling people names like bigots, racists and ignorant.
This was posted by an anonymous person, I gonna guess it was Glenn Beck.
9-11, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ISLAM
So I saw a poll the other day and saw that 30% of people were just uneducated about Islam and I thought “There is 30% I can willfully mislead and lie to about Islam”.
Citizen Warrior said…
I rather appreciated your meandering, Traeh. I have felt the same way about wanting to learn more. There always seems to be more to learn before I really feel like an expert. And yet, most people don’t even know the most rudimentary things about Islam. Someone asked me the other day, “Where is Islam?” as if it was a country or region (although that depth of ignorance is rare).But even still, most people don’t know much about Islam. I just read a poll of Americans that said 24 percent thought Islam was a peaceful religion and 30 percent were unsure. When I read that, I thought, “That means 30 percent only need a little more information to tip them to our side.”
And now we get a look into the mind of Citizen Warrior. I don’t know which I like more: how he casts himself in a fake epic struggle in a larger war of Good and Evil or how he talks about the “Joys of war”.
Citizen Warrior said…
Traeh, your last big paragraph really resonated with me. It is indeed strange being involved in a sort of secret underground war against an ideology. And it IS negative. Find a loving and positive spin? That’s a tough one, but maybe not as tough as it seems. I usually refer to my work as “saving the free world” when I’m talking to my friends. They ask me what I did over the weekend. I often answer something like, “Same old thing, trying to save the free world.” It is somewhat self-mocking, but it is also true and they know it’s true, and many of them admire me for it.When I am getting off work, someone might ask me, “What are you up to tonight?” I sometimes answer, “I’ll be fighting to save the free world, what about you?”
I think of the role as extremely positive myself, although the content of the task is admittedly sometimes negative.
In my own assessment, I cast our work in an heroic light. All throughout history, the fight has continued, good against evil, in its many forms. And most of my favorite movies depict some sort of battle between good and evil. Movies are a kind of symbolic value-system reinforcement.
What makes movies like Lord of the Rings epic is, I think, its universal message: That the forces of darkness are always gathering and that people of good heart and good intentions are always fighting to keep the good side winning.
As far as I can tell, it will never stop, so we might as well hunker down and enjoy the fight. And I really do think there is something to ENJOY about this fight. I love the feeling of meaningfulness and purposefulness this work bestows upon its warriors.
Someone at work was talking about 2012 and “the end of the world” the other day and many people joined in the discussion. My feeling was that they all lacked a sense of meaning, and many of them had a secret wish that something world-shaking WOULD happen in 2012 because they have nothing historically meaningful in their lives, nothing that gives them a sense of significance. I think people NEED that to really feel fully alive. And I didn’t feel I was missing that element in the slightest and I didn’t share their secret wish.
I feel I am engaged in a life-or-death battle for the fate of the planet, and I have met some magnificient people in this battle, good people who have become my friends and fellow warriors.
This is not a sure thing. It is not certain how things will turn out. There are many people AGAINST what we’re doing. There are secret forces fighting to subvert the freedoms we our predecessors fought so hard to win. This is really and truly a BATTLE, a fight for the playing field, a war of historical significance. And we must win.
The mainstream media focuses on the horror of war, and the psychological scars of war, but there is also the “joy of war,” if you could call it that — the feeling during a war that what is happening is more real and more significant and more urgent and more important than anything that happens in “normal” life. I’ve talked to WW2 vets who have told me that during the war they were more alive than any time since then, and that the bonds they formed under those circumstances withstood the test of time better than any other bonds.
Now I’M meandering. What I meant to say, though, is that although this sometimes feels like a “negative” thing we’re doing, in some ways that’s what makes the fight so important, so significant, and so ultimately satisfying. And that’s positive.
If the Muslim religion is tied to Islam and Sharia, then we definately need to change the “definition” of Religion in the US constitution. If the Muslim religion is tied to Islam and Sharia, then we definately need to change the “definition” of Religion in the US constitution. If the Muslim religion is tied to Islam and Sharia, then we definately need to change the “definition” of Religion in the US constitution
If the Muslim religion is tied to Islam and Sharia, then we definately need to change the “definition” of Religion in the US constitution. To say that Religion is a faith that teaches love and forgivenes and is not a threat to other religions. Once that is stablished. Then we can review the koran (And any other religions), and enforce US Muslims in Mosques to edit verses in the Koran(the teachings) that tie the Muslim faith (koran)with a Law (sharia) that teaches intolerance and killing of anyone who does not believe in the Muslim faith. Only until the Koran is revised (or abrogated as they say), it cannot coexist with different religions. Keep in mind Sharia are “hadiths”, laws that were written not by the prophet Muhammad, but by followers.
Once we change the constitution to make Islam not a religion we can force them to edit their holy book.
So please, next time you are talking to a non-Muslim about Islam keep the previous posts in mind and work their ideas and lessons into your conversation as needed.